‘No Guide for This’ Episode 1: Is Parenting for Me?

One is knee-deep raising three boys. The other is navigating the twists and turns of trying to conceive. What happens when two women in very different stages of the parenthood journey sit down and put it all on the table?

In the first-ever episode of No Guide for This, a new vodcast from The Bump about the pivotal transition from adulting to parenting, hosts Jen Hayes Lee and Sasha Smith get candid about their personal experiences with family planning, pregnancy and parenting, and how the reality of it all contrasts with what they had expected before starting down the path to parenthood. Along the way, they dig into some big questions facing parents and parent-hopefuls. How can you cope when seemingly everyone around you is getting pregnant, and it’s just not happening for you? And when you do get pregnant, how is parenting going to impact your relationships? Your career?

Join Jen and Sasha as they have an open conversation about the path to and through parenthood, sharing personal perspectives from different life stages.

Meet Our Hosts

Jen Hayes Lee, is a content strategist, brand builder and advocate for families. In addition to leading Marketing and Content at The Bump, she is also the founder of Bestow, a lifestyle brand known for its signature gold hoops, and the author of the upcoming children’s book The Golden Hoops (HarperCollins, September 2025). A proud New Orleanian, she now lives in New Jersey with her husband and three spirited sons, holding it down as the household’s sole female force.

Sasha Smith is the Sr. Brand Development Manager for The Bump, overseeing organic and paid social media channels as well as video channel strategies to bring The Bump’s content into the future. Sasha brings her experience as an influencer to her role, with over 22,000 followers and past brand collaborations such as Dermalogica, Target, Bobbi Brown, Estee Lauder and Lancome, among others. She was also a signed recording artist in Malaysia, during which time her debut single reached #1 on Hitz FM with over five million YouTube views. She now lives in Orlando, Florida with her husband and is contemplating what family planning looks like for them.

Episode Transcript

Jen: Hey, I’m Jen.
Sasha: Hi, I’m Sasha.
Jen: And welcome to No Guide for this, the show that is all about transitioning from adulting to adulting with kids. How are you feeling today, Sasha?
Sasha: Good. I’m excited about what we’re going to talk about.
Jen: I mean, this is our very first episode of the No Guide for this podcast. We’re here.
Sasha: We’re here. We made it.
Jen: So I feel like today’s episode is just the perfect place to start. Is parenting for me?
Sasha: Well, you’re already there.
Jen: I mean, just in case there was any confusion, I wore my mother sweatshirt.
Sasha: I noticed that. I like it.
Jen: I’m the mother—I’m a mom of three, as you know, and a wife.
Sasha: All the things.
Jen: All the things.
Sasha: Career woman.
Jen: Career woman, yeah.
Sasha: Entrepreneur.
Jen: Yeah. And what’s your setup like?
Sasha: My setup? So I’m not yet a parent, but I’m on that transition to parenthood journey. My husband and I got married nearly three years ago and we have been actively trying. In the first year, not so much. The second year we got more serious, and now we’re at that part where it’s like, wait, why hasn’t it happened yet? Why is this harder than I thought it would be?
Jen: I feel like that’s really common. I think for those of us who want to plan it, it’s sort of like, why isn’t it happening? And then for others of us, kind of like me the first time around, you’re like, wait, how in the world did this happen?
Sasha: Yeah, tell us about that. I know you didn’t plan for it to happen exactly at that time.
Jen: To be honest, I didn’t. And so it’s interesting. So I’ve got three kids, three boys, and of my three pregnancies, the first and the third were surprises. The second one was the only one that was planned. When I got married over 10 years ago, I had just finished business school. I got married to the love of my life, Clyde, and it was probably three months later that I got pregnant.
Sasha: Wow. Right into it. No time for the honeymoon phase.
Jen: We literally went on our honeymoon about a month and a half after our wedding, and I think less than a month later I was pregnant.
Sasha: Honeymoon baby then.
Jen: Yeah. And my story is so funny. I was over 30 when I actually got pregnant and I remember thinking, “Holy shit!”
Sasha: You weren’t ready! It was not in the plan.
Jen: No, it was not in the plan. And, like I said, I just finished business school. I was an entrepreneur at the time—I had started a business with one of my classmates. We were hitting the path, pitching VCs, doing all the things that entrepreneurs do, literally eating ramen noodles, spending very little money and trying to make it all work and pursue that dream. And when I got pregnant, it just felt like it was the wrong time.
Sasha: You probably needed a couple more years to get settled into your marriage and get your business up and running.
Jen: All that. And I remember talking to my cousin Dana, just being like, “Oh my God, what am I going to do?” And she looked at me and said, “You’re going to have a baby! That’s what you’re going to do.” I was like, “That sounds like a good plan.” And listen, again, I was over 30. I had done all the school I was ever going to do. I’d found my person. And you know what? Sometimes you just have to put on your big girl panties and say like, okay, this is where we’re at and let’s figure out how it fits into our life.
Sasha: Exactly. I feel like parenting just comes to you probably when you least expect it. And I feel like when you start to plan it, that’s when you realize that it’s not going to turn out the way that you planned.
Jen: Well, I mean some people do get lucky, but I’m curious, so you and Mo, how long have you guys been married?
Sasha: It’ll be three years this year. And so for us, our plan was that for the first year, let’s just enjoy being married, let’s focus on us, focus on our careers. I was also starting a little side hustle, so I was super busy, trying to buy a house, trying to save.
Jen: And you had a new job at The Bump!
Sasha: New job at The Bump. So just all the things, like you were saying. And I thought, okay, first year, if it happens, great, cool. If it doesn’t happen, no biggie. Second year rolls around and we were both a little like, okay, maybe we should take this more seriously.
Jen: Were you guys sort of wanting it to happen to you and then you would just deal with it?
Sasha: I think so. So sort of trying but not trying.
Jen: Not trying, trying. That’s a real thing. Not preventing.
Sasha: Yeah, not preventing, but not timing or doing any of the things, like getting healthy and eating well. We were just still doing what we do. But the second year rolled around and we thought, okay, let’s take this seriously. Let’s time it. Let’s eat better. Let’s stop drinking. Let’s really get serious. So we got serious. But a year later, I’m like, we’ve been trying a lot, I’m tracking things, I got the apps, I’m doing all this stuff. Why is it not happening? Oh shit, is there something wrong? Do we need to go down that path?
Jen: I mean, that’s really natural. But you said you were timing it. What do you mean by timing it? What were you timing, exactly? For those of us that are not there yet—I’m past that, but for those that aren’t there, what were you timing?
Sasha: The timing of the month, timing the ovulation days, timing my fertility windows and learning a lot about that. It was helpful that I was working at The bump and I could actually use our own resources and learn, like, what is ovulation, exactly? When does it happen? I was learning my cycle, which was actually really hard to kind of start tracking at first because it was very irregular. And learning all about that and then learning about diets, learning about what you shouldn’t be eating, what you shouldn’t be doing, how stress can play a really big factor. So many factors. So trying to let go of stress and unnecessary things that might be hindering it.
Jen: Yeah, I love that you were so thorough with it. And like they say, there’s an app for that, so I love that. Now technology has put us into a place where we can literally track all the things, so even though there’s no guide for this, there might be an app for this that can at least help be a resource, right? But I want to get into this—you said you were eating differently. What did you change in your diet?
Sasha: I cut out all the fast food. I would still have my cheat days because I was like, that’s hard. I mean, I was an Uber Eats DoorDash kind of person, so to cut that part out was really hard. But just getting more into making my own recipes. And my parents actually came down from Australia to help me updo our first home and we had a vegetable garden, so we built one of those. So now I’m growing my own vegetables and being the cute little homemaker. So learning about healthier habits, cooking at home and just wellness inside out.
Jen: Okay.
Sasha: And I didn’t realize how much that played a part. I thought, oh, when you want to get pregnant and you’re ready, it’ll just happen. And then you start to realize it doesn’t happen, but what can I do to maybe help make it better? And food I think is a big thing, especially if you’re eating really terribly.
Jen: Food, you mentioned stress—those are all big factors and I feel like the journey to pregnancy, not even the journey to parenthood, but the journey to pregnancy looks so different for so many people. I appreciate you sharing that. So here’s a question for you. You kind of hinted at, okay, so it’s not happening. Are you at a point now where you’re sort of like, okay, let’s call in the experts?
Sasha: We’re definitely getting close to that point. We said in the second year we’ll take it seriously. So we did a full year of all of the things, and now that we’re hitting that third year, we have started to get checkups. And I feel like I’ve been doing a lot of blood tests recently and all of that. And then everything’s cleared and now we’re hearing undetermined infertility, no idea why. It could be a million things.
Jen: So there’s no reason, on paper?
Sasha: We can’t figure it out. At some point by the third year, we’re like, okay, maybe we should check just in case there is something and maybe we should know now, if there’s a problem. And it’s okay if there is, but let’s just know now before we get a little bit too old. I’m in my mid-thirties, so it’s like, let’s find out.
Jen: You’re still in the pocket though, because I mean, listen, the Halle Berry of it all—I mean, people can have babies later. So you’ve got some time. We’ve got some examples. They might have Hollywood budgets to make things happen.
Sasha: I was about to say, some of us can’t afford that.
Jen: But I want to double click. So you said you checked a few things. I mean, are we talking, like, sperm count?
Sasha: Sorry to my husband! We did, yeah. Well, first we started with my ovulation. Am I ovulating? Am I even producing eggs? So we did all of that and it was all great. Like, you’re good to go. But now we’re at that part where I’m actually taking the step before the infertility specialists fully come in and having to do IVF and all that. I don’t think we’re anywhere near there yet. We’re starting to have conversations of if this doesn’t happen, would we adopt?
Jen: Those are big conversations.
Sasha: Yeah, very big. We definitely want a family, but it’s like, there are so many routes, so many ways you could go about it. And so right now it’s us taking the IUI option of helping to induce ovulation. I’ve done two cycles of that. By the third, if it doesn’t happen, we’ll pivot. Maybe take a break.
Jen: I’ll share a little personal anecdote. So as I mentioned, my first and my third pregnancies were surprises. But for my second pregnancy, we tried and tried and tried. I mean, I think it was about a year after.
Sasha: What was the age gap between the first and the second?
Jen: So all of my kids are each exactly two and a half years apart. That wasn’t planned. It was not planned. I think I would’ve wanted the first and the second to be about a year apart. What motivated wanting to have the second was we knew that we wanted my first son to have a sibling. So we were like, okay, let’s just knock this out. Let’s get through these baby years because anybody got time for that? We’re already in it now. And so we then started trying probably when my firstborn was, I don’t know, maybe eight months. I’m a little fuzzy on the timeline, but it took a full year. And can I tell you that we felt like we were in purgatory because it was all that we focused on. And as an ambitious woman who’s ambitious about everything in my life, my career, my schooling, opportunities. When you put yourself to something, you want to achieve it. And I know you can relate.
Sasha: Yes, a hundred percent.
Jen: And so I was peeing on the ovulation sticks. I was ordering this stuff from Amazon, I was doing all of that, and I was even planning to be pregnant at a certain time. So I was turning down trips to weddings. I was like, oh, I’m sorry I can’t go to your wedding in Italy. I’ll probably be pregnant. And after I turned down enough of those things to plan for this pregnancy that wasn’t happening, I had to take a break. And I remember that timeframe. I actually had a wedding. It was a New Year’s wedding. My girl Ashley was getting married at Penn State on New Year’s Eve. And so about a week or two before Ashley’s New Year’s Eve wedding, I was like, you know what, I’m calling it. You need a break. This is stressing me out. And as we know, you can’t get pregnant when you’re stressed. You literally cannot get pregnant when you’re stressed. And so I was like, this is over. And so I remember then saying, okay, great. Now I can drink at Ashley’s party. It was also sort of strategic. I was like, if I’m going to go back to my old ways, let’s do it before New Year’s Eve. And so we did, and I will tell you, my birthday’s in January. So between that New Year’s Eve party and mid-January I was sort of back to my old ways, not stressing about getting pregnant.
Sasha: And that’s when you got pregnant.
Jen: That is exactly when I got pregnant. When I finally allowed my body to relax, my mind to relax.
Sasha: We’ve had those conversations. And it’s like you said, when you’re timing it, you kind of lose the fizzle, the fun. It feels very on the clock and it’s just not exciting.
Jen: It’s not as exciting. And if you can’t physically have that happen when you’re all stressed and tense, the pregnancy might not happen as easily. So the minute we stop is when it happens.
Sasha: But that goes to show when you stop planning things and you kind of just let it be, let the journey that you’re supposed to be on happen, that’s the way it’s going to go. Whether you want to change it or you want it to go a certain way or a certain time, it’s not going to happen. Jen: So as a little bit of a left turn, I know that you and I pay attention to social media and pop culture. That’s our world, that’s our industry. And there are so many things that happen, I mean in parenthood, in motherhood, that are kind of funny, that are crazy, that are scary. And so we have this little segment that we’re going to introduce called Can’t Make This Up. So Can’t Make This Up are the kind of wild, crazy scenarios that happened related to parenthood. So I know that you and I both saw this moment that happened.
Sasha: Oh my gosh, it was so funny.
Jen: It was something with Snooki and her dog, right?
Sasha: It was a stitch. So it was a girl basically saying, and her main quote was, pets are not babies. And Snooki immediately stitched it and was like, how dare you? And she’s a mother, so she could probably say that too. She was like, yeah, but those are fighting words for a pet owner. If you’re a parent and pet parent, I mean, I call myself a pet parent. I have two dogs. Those are my babies.
Jen: Yes.
Sasha: So I get the argument, but I also understand the girl that originally made this video who said, I’m a mother and you’re not going to compare a pet to being a mother because it is so much. You can probably speak to this to compare them. Like, there’s no comparison to having children, especially three boys.
Jen: I mean, I’ll tell you this: I’m not going to have every pet owner coming for me. I know how passionate you pet owners are. I happen to be someone who did not grow up with pets, not any official pets. I mean, I had the odd fish or the odd gerbil, but it wasn’t a home where we had dogs or cats or anything like that, mostly because my mom was a busy career woman and there was just no time for it. But I do know how passionate pet owners are. As a quick aside, I’ve completely lied to all of my children and they think I am allergic to pets.
Sasha: I love that. That is a good parenting hack. If you don’t want pets, tell your kids you’re allergic.
Jen: The minute that they’re old enough to speak and they realize the wonderment and the love that can come from pets, they’re going to ask you for a pet.
Sasha: Or if their friends have pets.
Jen: Yeah, totally.
Sasha: They see one right there and like, Mom, I want a dog.
Jen: Oh my God. Christmas time. I’m ducking and dodging the puppy conversation. Every box they open, they ask, is there a puppy in there? And the guilt is real. The guilt as a mom who has admitted I cannot take care of another living thing. Three kids are enough, so I cannot take on a pet. But I do know the love that comes from a pet. This past holiday, we had to actually write a letter from Santa to my 7-year-old, my middle son, to let him down easy. That there was no pet pet coming. It’s a real thing. But now they challenge me on my made-up allergy. They’ll be like, Mom, are you okay? I think they’re testing me. And now there’s I guess hypoallergenic pets. So now I’m like, okay, the internet is undefeated because now the kids know too much. And now they’re like, well what about this type of pet? I’m like, maybe.
Sasha: Do you think you have to shift the conversation soon to, when you get old enough to take care of them, so that you’re not the one taking care of them? And maybe because your oldest is 10 now, he’s probably still not at an age where he can take care of it. But maybe when he’s a teenager?
Jen: Are you saying that I need to tell the truth? Is that what you’re implying? Maybe I’ll have to shift. How many pets do you have?
Sasha: I have two dogs, a German Shepherd and a Frenchie. So a big one and a little one.
Jen: Do you feel like a mom, like a pet mom?
Sasha:
A hundred percent. I have dog mom T-shirts. This morning I was checking the cameras. Are they in their beds? Have they had their breakfast? Are they okay? Are they going outside?
Jen: You might be a better mom than me.
Sasha: Even going on a trip, I’m like, oh my God, my babies, are they going to be okay with Mo? Is he going to love them the way that I do, is he going to cuddle them the way I cuddle?
Jen: You’re like, send me pictures. Let’s FaceTime with the pets.
Sasha: Oh yeah, I’m looking at the house cameras. Why is he over there and not cuddling you on the couch?
Jen: Oh my gosh. So funny.
Sasha: So I relate.
Jen: I get it. So I think we’re kind of on Snooki’s side with this one.
Sasha: Like you said, I don’t want to offend pet parents. I’m one of them. I feel like a mom. But yeah, there’s room for all sorts of parents out there. The more the merrier. Who’s turning down more love?
Jen: Not me. I’m not. And you know what? Maybe I will stop lying to my kids.
Sasha: Or you’ll just redirect it and say technology’s changed and this is a hyperallergenic dog. Jen: Exactly. We’ll roll with it. But a little white lie never hurt me.
Sasha: Exactly. Alright, Jen, so we know you’re a mom of three, but let’s take it back a little bit to when you were younger and what kind of life you pictured for yourself when you thought about being a grownup, and what that meant to you.
Jen: So growing up, it was just my mom and me. She was divorced and it was great because it was just the two of us. I didn’t miss out on anything. But I did have an awareness that when I grew up I wanted to have sort of a bigger household. I wanted my kids to have siblings. And again, I had an incredible childhood.
Sasha: So you don’t have any siblings—is that where that came from?
Jen: Yeah. So I had an older half-sister, but in my home it was just me. I was the only kid that was raised in my household. And so while it was a great life and I think I sort of mastered being an only child, I was still very social and I knew how to go to my cousin’s house or sleepovers, and I’d be out all weekend. But I did have this sort of desire to say, okay, when I have my own family, I definitely want there to be more than one kid to have sort of a built-in sort of best friend. So I think it was just an ambition and nothing that I ever freaked out about, that’s just how I envisioned my life. So today, now as a mom of three and wife and all the stuff, when times are hard, I’m like, this is the life I wanted. This is what I asked for.
Sasha: And have you always wanted that since you were young, or it kind of came to you maybe during the teenage years?
Jen: I think so. But I’ll tell you what—logistically, having three kids is not easy. Not at all. Compared to how I grew up. If my mom and I wanted to travel, that’s one hotel room, two plane tickets. And today with three kids, we’re two hotel rooms. People say, I want to fit a car load, but I don’t want to have to get an eight-seater. So let’s have three kids and stop there. Once you have four kids, now the car situation doesn’t work. And here’s what I have to keep reminding myself. I’ve got three boys who are between the ages of five to 10, and those boys are going to become young men. They’re only getting bigger. Those young boys are going to have other friends who are in our house, in our car, eating all of our food. I mean, hello Costco. I’m already very intimately connected with Costco. I’m like, I’m going to need to have a second job just to pay for Costco bills. And so it’s like, adjoining rooms at hotels. Three rows in a car. I can’t say, okay, maybe we’ll budget $1,500 for a trip. It’s like $5,000, bare minimum. There are five travelers. So it’s logistically challenging.
Sasha:Yeah.
Jen: I do always say, though, that when I’m old and gray and my kids are out of the house and it’s like Thanksgiving and one of my kids is going to be off doing God knows what, not coming home. At least I have a shot of two out of three of my kids. Those are good odds. So I’ve sort of created that buffer for myself.
Sasha: That’s funny.
Jen: That’s the kind of family setting that I’ve always said I wanted, which is three boys. I was very specific with wanting no girls. Three boys. I was very tomboyish when I was younger, so I thought I wouldn’t know how to handle girls. Girls are a lot. So I was like, I want a lot of kids, but I want them all boys and I want 'em to be little besties and grow up together and take care of each other, and I want to be the only girl in the household. Everyone takes care of mom. That is what my boys call me—queen mommy. Queen of the house. And it is nice. Having the three boys is nice because my husband does a lot of the stereotypical coaching, the games. And so every now and then I’m like, okay, you do boys day. Mommy’s going to watch some Real Housewives. Let me do my thing.
Sasha: Exactly. And so thinking of that, did you ever want to try and have a girl, or were you like three boys, and we’re tapping out?
Jen: So by the time my youngest is old enough to listen to this, hopefully he won’t be offended. But when I was surprised with pregnancy number three, because we were good with two, I was like, oh, if I’m going to be pregnant for a third time, this is the universe and God giving me the girl that I didn’t think I was going to have. There was no one that could have told me that that third one was not a girl.
Sasha: Your intuition, your gut feeling, was that it was a girl.
Jen: How could the universe play these tricks on me? And even after they told me that it was a boy, I was like, oh, there’s a mistake. I’ll come back in a month. It’s fine. You’ll correct yourself then. That was supposed to be my girl. Have you ever heard of gender disappointment?
Sasha: Yeah, I have heard about that.
Jen: It’s a real thing.
Sasha: I see a lot of gender reveal parties now. A lot of people are doing them all over social. And I see it more with men where they’re expecting maybe a boy, or they’ve had three girls or even five kids already and it’s all the same gender and they keep trying for the one they haven’t had. And you just see their faces or they get mad and then people kind of react like how dare you for getting so mad? But I mean, I can kind of understand that if you’ve had the same gender over and over, you’re like, come on.
Jen: Yeah, give me the girl. It’s a lot of pressure. And let’s just say this out front: We’re all grateful for healthy babies. We want healthy babies a hundred percent. So let’s just say that out the gate. But absolutely there are people that think about their lives and think about what they envision their life being. I have a really good friend, he’s got two daughters, so he’s outnumbered in his house, but he always had a vision of himself raising a young black man. That was his mission in life. And I dunno if he’s going to hear this, but I know for him it’s been a really tough sticking point. He and his wife have a beautiful family, a beautiful life. But I think for him it just feels like sort of an unrequited thing. And honestly, I don’t think he’s over it yet. And I get it.
Sasha: Yeah, there may be an experience of being a boy dad or a girl dad that maybe you don’t get, which I never even actually thought about. Like you’re definitely 100 percent a boy mom.
Jen: It ended up that way. And I’ll say this—so the technician that does the sonograms when you’re pregnant, I remember she said some words to me that stuck with me and I’ve never forgotten them. This was during my first pregnancy, and she asked me, do you want to know what you’re having today? And I was like, yeah, absolutely. And she said, okay, well just remember that a boy is yours until he takes a wife. A girl is yours for life. And I remember thinking, thanks a lot. And then I heard that two more times after that. And so it’s never left me. I’m like, so are my kids just going to abandon me? Who knows what they will take once they have the option to when they get older, but if they do grow up and get married, am I just on my own? You’re the mother-in-law now, right?
Sasha: Like, is the wife going to trump me? But there’s a special bond between a boy and a mom, even if they’re married.
Jen: That’s what I’m counting on.
Sasha: I mean, I’m calling my husband out, but he is a mama’s boy. She could do no wrong. She’s his bestie. And I mean, even this morning I was calling and he didn’t pick up. He called back and was like, I was on the phone with my mom. I’m like, I figured. So there’s hope, Jen, you’re good. Jen: Okay, this is what I’m hoping for. And once my youngest, Dean, once he came—I was literally on the table about to have him when I was like, okay, maybe it is a boy, I’m going to admit it—I was like, okay, from day one I’m going to make sure this one never leaves me.
Sasha: Yeah, you can try. We’ll see what happens. It might be the one that you least expect. Who’s the one that checks in on you? I feel like it’s an oldest’s responsibility. I’m the oldest, so I always feel like, lemme call mom. Let me see how she’s doing. Once you become adults, are they doing okay? Are they eating? Are they taking care of themselves? Yeah. So you might be surprised which one is the one.
Jen: Yeah. And I’ll tell you what, if there’s a little friendly competition between my sons, go for it. See who can treat mama the best. I’m here for it. I accept gifts, phone calls, what have you. I hope they’re competing for my love and affection.
Sasha: Exactly. And then you’ll have the daughter-in-laws, or whoever their partners are, eventually in your family and it will just grow, and yeah, you’ll never know where it’s going to go.
Jen: So I do have a question for you. I know you talked about all the technical checklist stuff that you and Mo are doing to prepare yourselves for family planning. Are your friends at a place where they’re starting to have families, and how does that impact you?
Sasha: So my best friend, she’s already had a kid—I think her daughter’s now 3—and a lot of our other friends have probably been married a lot longer than us. They got married more in their mid to late twenties and are already onto their second child. Most of my friends are already past that point. And so for us, I kind of felt like I’m behind. I got married at, what is it, 31, 32, I can’t even remember anymore. But yeah, that was for me. I was the type that was like, I’m going to be married with kids by 28 or 30. I’m going to have it all put together and everything in order. Fast forward to 35. My mom called me the other day and was like, you’re 35. And I’m like, oh, thank you. I’m trying to get it all done and get it all in line with the plan, but yeah.
Jen: Yeah, you’re like, thanks Mom. I forgot my birthday.
Sasha: Yeah. So my friends really had their own journeys. They had ‘em a lot earlier. It was kind of nice for me, though, to see. To say, wait, maybe I shouldn’t rush certain things because even to see my best friend firsthand go through pregnancy and how much it changed, not just her body, but just everything about her really changed. And she really had a tough postpartum after that where she really struggled to get back to who she was. She’s finally starting to look and feel like herself. And even I noticed that change in her. So that was kind of not scary. Am I ready for that? It all looks pretty and fun and it’s cute, but there’s a lot that takes a toll on a woman. And so maybe that’s not for me yet because it’s hard. It looks really hard.
Jen: I mean, Sasha, that is a whole episode in and of itself! And that transition and getting back to yourself, that is a real thing. You said your best friend’s daughter is 3 years old?
Sasha: And I just commented on something she posted the other day and I was like, girl, you look so good. I’m starting to see that spark again. There was the weight gain and then just even she had a lot of bloating and things, and it just kind of dragged on and she just couldn’t understand why she wasn’t getting back just like that. You do see some bounce back real quick and they’re back in the workforce and they’re out there and thriving. That did not happen for her. So I kind of saw that end of the spectrum a little bit of how it can really change you and then just also adapting to being a mother and your responsibilities. Now all of a sudden your whole world is about somebody else and making sure they’re alive.
Jen: There’s so much to unpack there. And you mentioned the physical part of it, the fact that your body transforms, that’s just one piece of it and the body is one thing, but mentally, how your body transformation impacts your mental state. The actual shift in hormones and how all that feels. And here’s the thing, a lot of people think being pregnant is the big transition. No, no, no, no. It’s the postpartum. When that little tiny person is there and they are literally depending on you for everything. And suddenly that whole notion of someone else’s needs becoming more important than your own, you’re living it in action. It is a wild period. Some people have easy postpartums, which is fantastic for many. But it can be really, really tough. And then you also mention just how your best friend is showing up in the world. That’s the thing, it’s like the bounce back in the body. You can get there, whether through natural means, through other augmented means. There’s lots of stuff these days. But it’s so much more than vanity, it’s how you present, how you show up, your confidence, your spark.
Sasha: Exactly.
Jen: The one thing that we haven’t mentioned when we think about the topic of parenting for me is how it impacts your career. And even thoughts of how to plan. Is there a right time to do it? And I think for me, again, I was an entrepreneur at the time, so it felt like the wrong time to get pregnant. Age said yes, it’s time, but my career journey at that moment was not the right time. I know you have an incredible boss at The Bump and you work for a pregnancy and parenting brand, so I think you being pregnant would be a really welcomed thing, but is that something that you think about?
Sasha: I think I got this job three weeks or a month before I got married, and I thought, oh, this is meant to be, because when the wedding’s done, naturally you go as a woman to what’s next? I’ve been focusing on this wedding for a year and a half. You get married and you go, okay, babies. I was in my thirties, so I was like, it’s perfect timing. And I literally had people, as we were saying goodbye at our wedding, be like, when are you having kids? I’m still in my wedding dress, and I’m like, wait, hold on a second. I remember people asking me and I just felt really not offended, but I was like, can I just enjoy this moment first? I already do it enough to myself. Learning to enjoy something in the moment is so hard. I’m already thinking of the next thing that I got to do. So I was kind of like, can we just enjoy being married? Can we go on our honeymoon? Having The Bump pop up out of nowhere, I felt, oh, this is a good resource to have just in my day-to-day to learn more about what it’s like to be a parent, besides the vanity looks and the body changing and just getting more in depth into how much your life actually changes after being a parent, from pregnancy to postpartum, all the way to transitioning to having toddlers. I really learned so much starting at The Bump. I’m just seeing daily articles every day, like about nipple cream, and I’m like, what happens to your nipples? Wait, what? Just so many things.
Jen: Wait until you get there. It’s funny, I’m thinking about the fact that I spent my twenties in New York, you sort of spent your twenties in the south in Florida. So even thinking about the average age when people were making that transition.
Sasha: And I’m half Asian, which means you need to be married by 21 and you need to have kids by 22 or something’s wrong with you.
Jen: I get you. It’s definitely regional. In New York, I was past 30 and I was the first of my friend group because it’s sort of like career is usually first in the city. And so I was early, I certainly wasn’t late. And so I remember just thinking, okay, now that we’re going to do this, what is the right time? Is this going to impact my earning?
Sasha: Especially for women, I think because we’re the ones that take a lot of the time off. Do we want to go back to work? It’s a real thing. Do we want time off even after our parental leave? Jen: It’s a real thing. But at the end of the day, when you think about your life and the things that you want to accomplish, and when you look back at the leaps you’ve taken, and if you feel like I want to be a mom at the end of the day, I don’t feel like my life will be complete unless I have a child, then you know what? 25, 35, 45—I say go for it. And when it comes to the nitty gritty and the details, all of that, I’m like, you know what? You’ll get there. You’ll get there, you’ll figure it out, because I’m not trying to scare anyone. I don’t want to freak anyone out. Not at all. And there’s a real thing about that amnesia. Have you heard about the amnesia that happens when you’re pregnant and certainly during labor and delivery?
Sasha: No.
Jen: Again, I’m not a scientist, I’m not a doctor, but there is a real sort of amnesia that happens I think biologically, where if you remembered the true pain of every aspect of delivering that baby, they say that you’ll never do it again.
Sasha: Oh wow. I’ve never heard of that. That’s a plus. Okay.
Jen: Yeah, exactly. You won’t remember. You’ll be good. That’s a plus. And I have to say one thing that I still feel a lot of guilt about, even now. I think about when I was in my early and mid twenties and I remember working for a magazine and I had two bosses who were amazing. They were two sisters. They co-shared a job. One of them would be in half the week, the other one would be in the other half the week. Cool. And they would always leave a little bit earlier than the rest of us. They might be out around 5:30, 6 p.m. I’m young, I’m in my twenties. I’m like, trying to hustle, stand out. And I remember thinking, oh, there they go. They’re leaving early again. They both had kids. And now being on the other side of it, I was like, I was such an asshole, straight up. I knew nothing. And I think back to that time, all of the time, and I wonder, you know what, Jen, until you take that leap, you cannot judge someone in that situation. Okay, Sasha. So I’m really thankful that you shared a little bit about your journey. I actually did not know that you and Mo were actively trying.
Sasha: It’s kind of one of those things when you work from home, it’s not like we’re in the trenches and the cubicles all day where we kind of get to know each other a little bit more, go out for coffees and do stuff. And it’s not something you just kind of randomly bring up to everybody—even with a lot of friends and family, it’s not something easy to just tell someone. It’s also kind of hard to be like, we’re trying—aka, we’re in that room doing what we got to do. It’s kind of awkward to say that, but yeah, for sure.
Jen: And I think the other thing too is once you share that with everyone and invite them on that journey, then I mean you don’t want the questions all the time. Has it happened yet? And then even once it happens, I mean you have to be a little bit precious with those first, I’d say 20 weeks, 12 to 20 weeks.
Sasha: Yeah. I even thought, okay, what if when I’m looking at the tests—if I’m pregnant and this is it, what am I telling people? I heard that you should wait a little longer. I also am like, I don’t want the evil eye, but when are you supposed to tell people?
Jen: What is the evil eye?
Sasha: Well, it’s like a natural thing that when someone looks at you like, oh, I wish that was me. Especially when it comes to wanting kids and not being able to. I think in the infertility world, that could probably happen a lot where you look at someone else and go, like, why not me? Why is it so easy for her? And I want to always be mindful of that.
Jen: You know what? Just to keep it totally real, I actually had a very, very dear friend who at one point texted me and said, I need to talk to you. And when we got on the phone, she shared with me that she and her husband had been trying for a while and she said, Jen, I love you and I love your family, but for a little while, I don’t want to hear about your kids’ birthday parties. I don’t want you sending me pictures. She said, I’m going to have to stop following your feed on social for a little bit because it’s just too painful for me. And I was not upset, I was not offended.
Sasha: I was about to say, you probably would’ve appreciated that honesty versus noticing and wondering why she’s unfollowing you and have no idea why. It’s helpful to understand her journey and know, well, she’s trying right now and seeing all this could be very heartbreaking. And sometimes there’s no explanation. And if that’s something you wanted for a very long time, it could be very rough on someone. That was their goal. I have friends and all they envisioned for themselves was to be a mom. Thankfully, I feel like if it doesn’t happen, I’ll be okay. It wasn’t my only name or title that I gave myself, but I do feel like some others, this is really hard to see that you’re doing something that I would kill to be in your shoes right now.
Jen: A thousand percent. I had nothing but empathy. My journey didn’t come without some loss—I actually had two miscarriages and then three pregnancies that came to fruition. But that said, I got it. I was like, say less. For me, I totally understood. And for you, listen, I’m putting positive energy out there; all the juju is heading your way. It’s going to happen for you and Mo when the time is right. I have no doubt about that. I’m just curious, what do you think is going to change about your life once that time actually comes?
Sasha: So much. So much would change, I think immediately too. It’s like, nursery, now. Who’s giving up the office? Who’s doing what, all the way down to even the roles changing for our parents. His parents are already grandparents. So I think they’re in the flow of things. My side hasn’t had grandkids. So I think for them that would change a lot. I think it would change my dynamic with them too—like okay, well now that I’m a mother, I have something else I have to worry about. So that dynamic would change. Everything about who we are would change. And then of course, now you’re thinking of somebody else and something else. And so maybe even careers would change. How am I projecting where I want to be because now I’m a mother? Do I want to take time off? Do I want to stay in the workforce? Do I want to keep trying to be that boss woman or do I want to take some things off my plate? So a lot. I think too much. Too much would change.
Jen: It’s a lot to consider. And again, I know it’s going to happen for you.
Sasha: Yeah. Well, I hope it does. And if it does, I do want to go into the next segment that we call Parent Truths. And I just want you to figure it out on the spot. I’m going to ask you a quick question. And speaking of early pregnancy and not yet pregnant, I’m thinking of these things, which is a babymoon. A babymoon is a…?
Jen: So wait, I’m supposed to fill in the blank?
Sasha: Yeah. What is a babymoon to you?
Jen: A babymoon is a set-up for disaster.
Sasha: Really? See, for me, I thought a babymoon was a must.
Jen: So this might be an unpopular answer, a controversial answer. I remember when I was pregnant the very first time, and my husband was like, where do you want to go on a babymoon? I was like, you want me to go put this body in a bathing suit and not drink on my vacation? I was like, why would I ever do that? And so for me, a babymoon’s like, no, no.
Sasha: Is there an after-moon?
Jen: Once I’ve done all the hard work, now let’s go celebrate. Yeah, I’ll take the push present. Yes, we’ll do that. Push present is a yes. Babymoon, not so much for me. I know many people who have done it, and they look very cute. But no, no, no. Not for me. And in fact, although I talk a big game, and that was what I told him, we still went on a babymoon for the first kid. We went to Montreal and I had a miserable time. And not only did I have a miserable time, I got sick. I forgot that you’re not supposed to eat deli meat when you’re pregnant.
Sasha: I was about to say, did you eat some bad chicken?
Jen: I got a turkey sandwich in the airport in Canada, and I came home and was as sick as a dog. And I was like, I was right.
Sasha: And so for the second and third, you’re like, I’m not doing babymoons, no babymoon—take me on a postpartum moon, whatever. I’ll take any other type of moon, but no babymoons. Okay. Well that’s really good for me to know in case that happens for me. Love that. And just to close things off, Jen, I do really want to ask you, since you are the mother of this group, what is the one trait that you hope your child doesn’t inherit from you or your children? And what’s one trait that you do hope that they inherit? So one negative, one positive.
Jen: This is a great question, and I feel like we should ask any guest the same question. So I am very ambitious—ambitious personally, professionally, I don’t have any self-limiting beliefs. I feel like if I put my mind to something, I can do it. I can get it done. And I hope that all of my kids have that type of confidence and the drive and the will to take on big things, to not play small. And this has been a bit of a recurring theme in my life. And I feel like every time I’ve taken a leap and taken a chance, good things come. And so I think that’s probably the one thing that I hope all of my kids inherit from me. I was listening to another one of my favorite podcasts, On Purpose with Jay Shetty. And this insight came out about how people are two and a half times more fearful of failing than they are of the chance of yielding something positive. And so I think about that every time that I’m sort of timid about taking my shot, I’m like, wait, I’ve got to overcome that. Because what’s on the other side of that could be so good.
Sasha: Oh, a hundred percent. I totally believe that. And I feel like everything that I’ve tried that didn’t work, I wouldn’t be where I was in a different situation if I didn’t try that. Because that opportunity that failed opened a different door. And it’s like, there’s no failure. It’s like you’ve learned something and now you’re smarter because of that, and now you’re taking on the new challenge and you’re killing it. Well, we got into so much today!
Jen: Yeah, a lot. And I feel like we know each other even better, which is all positive stuff. Thank you so much for sharing your journey.
Sasha: Thank you. Yeah, no, this was really fun. I’m excited about all the guests that we’re going to be interviewing and talking to this season.
Jen: It’s going to be a good season. Thank you so much for joining us, for No Guide for This, and we’ll see you next time.
Sasha: Thanks.